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	<title>Comments on: Predictions on the future of NoSQL</title>
	<atom:link href="http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/</link>
	<description>A blog about the web, mobile web, semantic web and mobile semantic web.</description>
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		<title>By: Reedo</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2150</link>
		<dc:creator>Reedo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2150</guid>
		<description>For document oriented stuff, I&#039;d have thought XQuery would be a better fit than SPARQL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For document oriented stuff, I&#8217;d have thought XQuery would be a better fit than SPARQL.</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2143</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2143</guid>
		<description>Regarding JSON support and XML handling: these are not natural bed-fellows for the relational model, but take, for example, something like M/DBX (http://bit.ly/zljNa).  Here an underlying NoSQL database (GT.M: http://bit.ly/2fS2jy) allows JSON to be mapped to and from XML and persisted as a persistent XML DOM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding JSON support and XML handling: these are not natural bed-fellows for the relational model, but take, for example, something like M/DBX (<a href="http://bit.ly/zljNa" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/zljNa</a>).  Here an underlying NoSQL database (GT.M: <a href="http://bit.ly/2fS2jy)" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/2fS2jy)</a> allows JSON to be mapped to and from XML and persisted as a persistent XML DOM.</p>
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		<title>By: todd</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2142</link>
		<dc:creator>todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2142</guid>
		<description>Emil,

OO databases have had similar modeling primitives and architectures for quite some time. What makes now different? Is separating behaviour from data the key difference or is there something else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emil,</p>
<p>OO databases have had similar modeling primitives and architectures for quite some time. What makes now different? Is separating behaviour from data the key difference or is there something else?</p>
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		<title>By: G</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2141</link>
		<dc:creator>G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2141</guid>
		<description>The other misunderstanding about RDF is that it is a cheminformatics file type that has been around an extended period of time.  The more complicated cousin to SDF, parsers are harder to come by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other misunderstanding about RDF is that it is a cheminformatics file type that has been around an extended period of time.  The more complicated cousin to SDF, parsers are harder to come by.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Neubauer - Neo4J</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2139</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Neubauer - Neo4J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2139</guid>
		<description>Very good thoughts Aleksander!
Yes, we are thinking along the same lines - NOSQL does not mean to abandon &quot;enterprise&quot; features. Then, of course we need techniques to handle scaling. Both to size and to data density which are both increasing. Graphs are the most capable data models, but of course the hardest to scale in a generic way. 

However, the concrete form and domain of the data has great potential for graph sharding optimization, as the example of document stores shows - collecting related information in a non-generic shard - the document.

Cheers,

/peter</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good thoughts Aleksander!<br />
Yes, we are thinking along the same lines &#8211; NOSQL does not mean to abandon &#8220;enterprise&#8221; features. Then, of course we need techniques to handle scaling. Both to size and to data density which are both increasing. Graphs are the most capable data models, but of course the hardest to scale in a generic way. </p>
<p>However, the concrete form and domain of the data has great potential for graph sharding optimization, as the example of document stores shows &#8211; collecting related information in a non-generic shard &#8211; the document.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>/peter</p>
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		<title>By: Emil Eifrem</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2137</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil Eifrem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2137</guid>
		<description>Rod --

I actually disagree that most NOSQL stores are moving in the opposite direction from graphs. I think there&#039;s two main focuses in the NOSQL space today: projects oriented around scaling to SIZE and projects oriented around scaling to COMPLEXITY.

Scaling to size then means coping with large volumes of relatively simple data (for example username / password) and the key-value stores and bigtable clones live here.

Scaling to complexity means coping with data that is semi-structured and that is connected. Here&#039;s where the document databases and graph databases live.

Scaling to size get a lot of attention because scaling to hundreds and thousands of machines is very sexy. But for the majority of the use cases out there that don&#039;t need Google or Amazon scale, then coping with complexity through a rich data model that can easily represent most or all domains, is much more important.

And in this group we can certainly see that there&#039;s a move towards more graph-like structures. Couch was the pioneering document database that set the ground and already Mongo added references to their data model. Now recently Riak came along and took the next step with its support for links.

In a graph database like http://neo4j.org (disclaimer: /me is involved) then relationships -- how two nodes are related to one another -- are first class citizens. They have a mandatory type (KNOWS, OWNS, CONTAINED_IN, etc) and an arbitrary amount of key-value properties. Our experience is that it makes modeling any domain a WHOLE lot easier and over time I think other models will start adding similar features.

--
Emil Eifrem
http://twitter.com/emileifrem
http://neo4j.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rod &#8211;</p>
<p>I actually disagree that most NOSQL stores are moving in the opposite direction from graphs. I think there&#8217;s two main focuses in the NOSQL space today: projects oriented around scaling to SIZE and projects oriented around scaling to COMPLEXITY.</p>
<p>Scaling to size then means coping with large volumes of relatively simple data (for example username / password) and the key-value stores and bigtable clones live here.</p>
<p>Scaling to complexity means coping with data that is semi-structured and that is connected. Here&#8217;s where the document databases and graph databases live.</p>
<p>Scaling to size get a lot of attention because scaling to hundreds and thousands of machines is very sexy. But for the majority of the use cases out there that don&#8217;t need Google or Amazon scale, then coping with complexity through a rich data model that can easily represent most or all domains, is much more important.</p>
<p>And in this group we can certainly see that there&#8217;s a move towards more graph-like structures. Couch was the pioneering document database that set the ground and already Mongo added references to their data model. Now recently Riak came along and took the next step with its support for links.</p>
<p>In a graph database like <a href="http://neo4j.org" rel="nofollow">http://neo4j.org</a> (disclaimer: /me is involved) then relationships &#8212; how two nodes are related to one another &#8212; are first class citizens. They have a mandatory type (KNOWS, OWNS, CONTAINED_IN, etc) and an arbitrary amount of key-value properties. Our experience is that it makes modeling any domain a WHOLE lot easier and over time I think other models will start adding similar features.</p>
<p>&#8211;<br />
Emil Eifrem<br />
<a href="http://twitter.com/emileifrem" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/emileifrem</a><br />
<a href="http://neo4j.org" rel="nofollow">http://neo4j.org</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sam Johnston</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2136</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 02:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2136</guid>
		<description>+1 Insightful. FWIW I refer to them all as &quot;structured storage&quot; now, as distinct from &quot;raw storage&quot; like Amazon EBS (at least in the context of cloud computing).

Sam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+1 Insightful. FWIW I refer to them all as &#8220;structured storage&#8221; now, as distinct from &#8220;raw storage&#8221; like Amazon EBS (at least in the context of cloud computing).</p>
<p>Sam</p>
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		<title>By: Matjaž Lipuš</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2134</link>
		<dc:creator>Matjaž Lipuš</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 21:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2134</guid>
		<description>Looking at trends moving to WOA I would say there is something on it. RESTful databases such as MongoDB, CouchDB and Persevere are simple to query and fast.

I won&#039;t predict what is the future of NoSQL, but it is obvious relational databases needs some freshness.

For us who still loves to experiment with academic experiments here are some links: www.openrdf.org http://sparql.sourceforge.net http://razor.occams.info/code/semweb
But as already Aleksander mentioned a lot of those projects stale or &quot;taking an indefinite hiatus&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at trends moving to WOA I would say there is something on it. RESTful databases such as MongoDB, CouchDB and Persevere are simple to query and fast.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t predict what is the future of NoSQL, but it is obvious relational databases needs some freshness.</p>
<p>For us who still loves to experiment with academic experiments here are some links: <a href="http://www.openrdf.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.openrdf.org</a> <a href="http://sparql.sourceforge.net" rel="nofollow">http://sparql.sourceforge.net</a> <a href="http://razor.occams.info/code/semweb" rel="nofollow">http://razor.occams.info/code/semweb</a><br />
But as already Aleksander mentioned a lot of those projects stale or &#8220;taking an indefinite hiatus&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Aleksander Kmetec</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2133</link>
		<dc:creator>Aleksander Kmetec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 18:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2133</guid>
		<description>The HEART project (RDF store built on top of Hadoo) looks very interesting, but judging by the project blog and SVN history the development appears to have stalled. :(
http://heart.korea.ac.kr/trac/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The HEART project (RDF store built on top of Hadoo) looks very interesting, but judging by the project blog and SVN history the development appears to have stalled. :(<br />
<a href="http://heart.korea.ac.kr/trac/" rel="nofollow">http://heart.korea.ac.kr/trac/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rod</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2132</link>
		<dc:creator>Rod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2132</guid>
		<description>I, too, would like to see more graph-like data stores (e.g. triplestores) but I&#039;m afraid NoSQL efforts are actually moving in the opposite direction. While most key-value stores introduce flat structure and redundancy in order not to join anything and scale better, triplestores are exactly the opposite (no redundancy, join like crazy). I, for one, have no idea how to find compromise here but I sure would love to see it happen.

I mean, something that scales as good as Big Table but can be queried with SPARQL would be... a dream come true :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, too, would like to see more graph-like data stores (e.g. triplestores) but I&#8217;m afraid NoSQL efforts are actually moving in the opposite direction. While most key-value stores introduce flat structure and redundancy in order not to join anything and scale better, triplestores are exactly the opposite (no redundancy, join like crazy). I, for one, have no idea how to find compromise here but I sure would love to see it happen.</p>
<p>I mean, something that scales as good as Big Table but can be queried with SPARQL would be&#8230; a dream come true :)</p>
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		<title>By: Aleksander Kmetec</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2131</link>
		<dc:creator>Aleksander Kmetec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2131</guid>
		<description>I never said it&#039;s going to be a quick and easy transition. ;-) Anyway, I wish you lots of success with tackling that problem if my predictions happen to come true one day.

I have to admit, though, that the main reason I&#039;d like to see document oriented dbs become more graph like is not because I would think that there&#039;s anything wrong with them, but because I&#039;d like to see diversity in the graph db space. I spent last 3+ years working with a graph db emulated on top of a relational db and you can probably imagine it was a less than ideal experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never said it&#8217;s going to be a quick and easy transition. ;-) Anyway, I wish you lots of success with tackling that problem if my predictions happen to come true one day.</p>
<p>I have to admit, though, that the main reason I&#8217;d like to see document oriented dbs become more graph like is not because I would think that there&#8217;s anything wrong with them, but because I&#8217;d like to see diversity in the graph db space. I spent last 3+ years working with a graph db emulated on top of a relational db and you can probably imagine it was a less than ideal experience.</p>
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		<title>By: dwight_mongodb</title>
		<link>http://lexandera.com/2009/11/predictions-on-the-future-of-nosql/comment-page-1/#comment-2130</link>
		<dc:creator>dwight_mongodb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lexandera.com/?p=545#comment-2130</guid>
		<description>will be interesting to see if the document-oriented databases get more graph-like over time or not.  it is harder to shard a graph database, that is the main challenge, and true horizontal scalability is a key feature of this new space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>will be interesting to see if the document-oriented databases get more graph-like over time or not.  it is harder to shard a graph database, that is the main challenge, and true horizontal scalability is a key feature of this new space.</p>
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